Conversations with the enlightened.

Archive for August, 2010

“An abundence of energy”

are u christian?

No.

do u believe in jesus?

I believe Jesus was a human being who is now dead.

are u jewish?

No, I’m not.

are u atheist?

Yup.

Y?

I don’t believe in your god likely for the same reason you fail to believe in all the gods of other religions.

wait i never said i had a god i just asked y u r an atheist?

Oh, are you an atheist?

no not at all life is to perfect look at your circulatory system i just dont define god as a religion

Well, in that case, my statement stands. I disbelieve in your god for the same reasons you likely reject other gods.

how am i rejecting what i accept who knows what book is right but the energy of god exist even for you im not religious im just not blind

…So you don’t reject the existence of any gods, huh?

absolutely none from zeus to budha

How about Sauron? Do you believe in Sauron?

label it how u need, its just a name for the energy and i dont know sauron never heard of it

He’s the supernatural spirit who serves as the principal antagonist in The Lord of the Rings.

lol thats why i never seen lord of the rings but sure why not why cant his energy exist

Is there any chance you could give me a clear, concise definition of what you mean by saying that something’s “energy exists”?

you exist right?
you exist right?

Sure.

well would you not agree that scientifically you exist as energy you do in fact have an electrical current that passes thru?

I agree that part of my body’s working involves the transference of electrical charges, yes.

same electrical current in which your heart beats and your brain sends impulses to the different nerve endings and central nervous system
do you not agree that the sun produces an energy thru fision
?

The sun releases energy through fusion.

no its fision energy actually
different but close

😄 Oh really? And how does the sun cause fission to occur?

thru turning helium into hydrogen

So the sun turns heavier elements into lighter elements through fission?

please tell me if i am wrong and provide a reference point

Okey-dokey. You’re wrong, and here’s a reference: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/articles/fusion/

i digress
is it not energy?

The sun releases energy, yes.

then i appologize, moving along, now theres an energy that gathers particles to make that star right?

There’s a physical force; it’s not the same as electromagnetic energy, though.

and physical force is a form of?
energy

Physical forces like gravity are not energy in the sense that electromagnetic energy is energy.

electromagnetic energy is another form of energy not the only one

What point are you trying to make? Gravity = energy, therefore god exists?

now, energy gathers stars to make galaxies, which are gathered in the universe our known main producer of all energy

Stars don’t actually produce energy; they just release stored energy.

now the energy that still exist all around us in our universe from smallest atom to the largest black whole came from an energy
the energy that displaced or transferred into our universe thats “god” to me

Atoms and black holes are made out of matter.

matter that was gathered ny force or energy
by*

Oh– so when you say “god,” you don’t mean god in any typical or useful sense. “God” is just a label you’ve decided to affix to some nonsentient electromagnetic energy.

no its what created that nonsentient electromagnetic energy

What characteristics do you ascribe to whatever caused the energy that exists in the Universe to come into existence?

and if u can say nonsentient electromagnetic energy isnt useful than how can u exist

I’m saying that your deciding to label it “god” isn’t useful. It would be as useful for me to label my nail clippers “god.”

an abundence of energy put forth to create a most perfect inner working of forces, events and life form, that have led us to today in whi
which we can discuss it*
thats god

So… you’re saying that the energy that exists in the Universe was caused to exist by “an abundence of energy.”
What’s led you to that conclusion?

god did people who say everything came from nothing did
lifes to perfect to not see design

But… you say that god is what caused the Universe’s energy to exist. And you say that god is “an abundence of energy.” And you say that “god” caused you to believe that “an abundence of energy” caused the Universe’s energy to exist.
So, to condense, you say you believe that “an abundence of energy” caused the Universe’s energy to exist because of “an abundence of energy.”
Or, in other words, you believe in god because god.
That doesn’t make much sense.

neither does not accepting the perfect things around you

And now you’re talking about design as if your god is some sort of sentient being that goes around designing things.

Yes
i am

But so far you’ve described your god only as a charge of energy.

exactly and when I think of it i feel that energy but thats me

None of what you’re saying makes any sense. A charge of energy does not demonstrate properties of sentience.

why?

Presumably because it is not sentient.

I think your looking for me to say god loves you and im not im saying god is the energy that created everything

No; I’m looking for you to provide a coherent explanation of your beliefs. So far you’ve said that god is energy that created the energy in our universe and designs things.

when you say coherent you mean like believing in nothing? lol

No.

how can what im saying be undeniable yet believing in nothing is coherent thought

Believing in nothing wouldn’t be coherent, in my opinion.  In order for contemplation of belief to occur, there must be something that exists to do the contemplating.

what do you believe in?

I believe in many things. Do you want me to just list off random things I believe in, or…?

in reference to how you came here today what do you believe began everything?

I was already here at the beginning of today; I didn’t really need to “come” here. As for what began everything, there’s no way to be rationally sure at this point.

dont run from rationality energy made everything “god” is that energy

😄 Your beliefs are not rational. They’re so vacuous you can hardly explain them in sentences.

you fight for what you dont know?

…What? I don’t fight on behalf of the currently unknown cause of the existence of the Universe.

does it worry u that u dont have an answer?

Not really. Not enough to cause me to pull an answer out of thin air and then pretend it’s reasonable, anyway.

my answer is unreasonable yet u not having one isn’t? yet you still get on here and bash god?
where is your rationality?

…My rationality is in not pretending to know things I don’t.

exactly u dont know

Yup. And neither do you.

your mad because you dont know

I’m annoyed because you pretend that you know when you don’t.

no i know with all of my beating heart i know

Have you tried knowing things with your brain instead of your beating heart?

brain would sease to exist without my heart

Same goes for your liver. Do you think with your liver as well?

using your brain where is your explanation?

Where’s my explanation for what?

I think my body was designed much as im making you see, to perfectly to not believe it was designed that way

You’ve not shown me any evidence that your body was a product of intelligent design.

no? really you see no intelligent design in the body and its ability to reproduce another?

No. I can see where the illusion of design might be seen by someone unfamiliar with evolutionary biology, but I cannot see why design should actually be demanded as an explanation, once all the facts are accounted for.

the fact that a single celled organism turned into you or i there was no intelligence there it just happened?

Well, that’s… not a very complete explanation of the evolutionary process as it’s occurred on Earth. But, no, evolution doesn’t require intelligent guidance.

so what put the first organism on earth that evolved?

I favor the hypothesis that the progenitor of life was a simple, self-replicating molecule, if that answers your question.

so those same molecule made dirt as much as it made a heart?

Oh, no. Dirt isn’t a form of life; I expect dirt was plentiful on Earth before life began.

what brought this molecule to be and why is it different from dirt?
this one molecule that began evolution from where do you believe it came?

Well, it’s impossible to know with certainty how abiogenesis occurred, but it’s known that these types of molecules can be assembled in young-Earth-like conditions by electricity, so it’s plausible that the first self-replicator was assembled by something like a lightning strike.
As for how it would have been different from dirt… it would have had a different molecular structure, if that’s what you mean.
And as for where I believe it occurred, there’s really no way to know; I could speculate, but it’d just be speculation.

something like nonsentient electromagnetic energy
?

Lighting is energy, yes.

there you go so why is what i believe different from you because i call it god?

You ascribe design to life and claim that the energy that exists in the Universe was caused to exist by “an abundence of energy.”
You can stick the label “god” on a random spark of electricity if you like, but… I would question the usefulness of such a decision.

so basically we said the same thing i just call it god you call it science
thats ok

No. I just explained where we diverge, but I’ll copy/paste it for you since you apparently missed it.
You ascribe design to life and claim that the energy that exists in the Universe was caused to exist by “an abundence of energy.”

then you mistook me no i believe the universe was made out of an abundence of energy like oh say the big bang, now i call the lightning strike you believe in god but im wrong?

…What? How is the Big Bang “an abundence of energy”?
And you did ascribe design to your own body; surely you’re not going to pretend you didn’t say that.

Please explain why it is not, no i call the lightning strike design, without the force that put that strike into place
to cause the molecule that caused the first cell that cause us

Oh, okay. So you don’t believe that the structures of the human body are the result of intelligent design.

i absolutely do

X) Then we do not believe the same thing.

lol is science not intelligent?

Science didn’t design the human body.

nope the humans designed science, but what u believe in is a basis of science correct?

The scientific method is a set of logical tools with which we can better determine the nature of reality.

I feel your pain in not knowing, Because we can never know, all you can do is have faith in something whether science makes you comfortable with not knowing or god for me its ok to not know you dont have to hate what you dont know

…Are you deranged? Firstly, there’s no reason to think that we won’t eventually know how the Universe came to exist. Secondly, I don’t hate your nonsense per se; I’m just pointing out that it’s nonsense.

no nonsense is to say i came from a lightning bolt lol listen to that? fear breeds hate and its ok just be at peace with yourself dont
hate what you dont know

I never said that I “came from a lightning bolt.” And please don’t act like deciding to embrace delusion for comfort is somehow on par with rigorous scientific thinking.

and science is to young to study god you wont ever know but you can have your theories
is what you say not a theory as is god?

What I’ve described to you is a theory well-substantiated with evidence. What you’ve described to me is, at best, an unevidenced hypothesis.

no you’ve given me theories on lightning bolts

Why are you so stuck on the lightning bolts? You do know that lightning exists, don’t you?

you have no evidence just theories

Sure I do. Ever heard of the Miller-Urey experiment? It demonstrated that electricity could create molecules similar to the hypothetical self-replicator in roughly young-Earth-like conditions.

where you physically there for this experiment?

No. What are you going to argue now, that there’s no way to know if something happened if one was not present for it?

hypothetical self-replicator exactly

Yeah, sure. I already told you, there’s no way to know exactly how abiogenesis occurred.

hypothetical self-replicator sounds like theory

Yup.

but you justsaid you had evidence?

Sure.

so u do or u dont?

You do realize that “theory” doesn’t mean “has no substantiating evidence,” don’t you?

but a theory is not fact
or law
its a theory

😄 Oh really? Ever heard of the theory of gravity? Or the germ theory of disease?

ever heard of the theory of god?

Sure. I understand it’s an unfalsifiable theory with no substantiating evidence.

theory is not fact or it would be stated as law
correct?

Incorrect. You’re making a common mistake. In scientific jargon, “theory” does not imply uncertainty. A theory, no matter how proven, does not become a “law.” You’ve got to understand that the word “theory” is used differently in science than it is in casual conversation.

theory does imply that there is chance for flaw
so what does law in science mean?

Well, there’s always a chance of a flaw, even with something as well-established as the germ theory of disease.

so accpet you dont know but dont bash others for not knowing

I bash others for pretending to know when they don’t.
Anyway, in broad strokes, a law is pure observation; a theory includes explanatory mechanisms for the observed phenomenon.

you know science will answer your questions and they havent so you theorixe
theorize*

“Science” isn’t some sort of entity that answers queries; it’s just a set of techniques for thinking.

so you dont know anything about existence you use science to figure it out u cant so u are angered and bash people who believe they have
the answer
?

I try to assure that my beliefs are rationally constructed, and I get annoyed when people tout obvious lies as the truth. Look– I wouldn’t judge you if you could justify your claims, but you can’t.

a theory on life means as much as god means to life you have no place to judge
neither can you

Sure I can. What claim have I made which you’d like me to justify?

u use theory

Well, sure. As I’ve told you (and you’ve apparently ignored) “theory” used in the scientific sense does not imply uncertainty.

what claim have i made that is unjustifiable?

You’ve claimed that the human body is intelligently designed, for one thing.

what of my theory can u disprove?

The burden of proof is on the claimant only.

the burden of un known is on everyone accept it you know as much about how life was made as i do neither can be disproven thats why we
call them theories

That’s actually precisely untrue. A theory (in the scientific sense) must be falsifiable.

as u said they dont imply uncertainty

Sure, there’s no reason to be uncertain of a well-substantiated theory, but what you’ve presented me with is a strange, barely-coherent hypothesis with no proof.

yours as well

As I’ve said repeatedly, I’ll gladly substantiate any claim I’ve made, something which you’ve declined to do.

i believe in god you believe in a molecule and a lightning bolt

No. I said that lightning was one possible way an electrically-caused reaction could have taken place that produced a progenitor to life.

so u dont know?

As I’ve told you three or four times now, there’s no way to know exactly how abiogenesis occurred.

thats ok

Yeah, I know.

so you dont know if god exists?
admit defeat amd say no
and

There’s no way to be incontrovertibly certain that he doesn’t exist, as goes for every nonexistent thing. However, there’s also no evidence suggesting that a god does exist.

sure there is something made everything
but thats a theory
just like yours

😄 No. As I’ve pointed out, my views are substantiated by evidence. Yours are not.

dont bash things u dont know

I’ve asked you to explain your views. If I don’t know them by now, you must be poor at explaining.

you dont know if mine are or not as uve said theres no way to know if hes real

I said there’s no way to know with incontrovertible certainty.

must be im no preist lol

That’s not the same as saying that there’s no way to know with a high degree of certainty.

it is

There’s no way to prove incontrovertibly that the moon isn’t made out of cheese. Therefore, do you think it’s wrong to say that the moon isn’t made out of cheese? Is the moon’s cheesiness an open issue for you?

put a fancy word on it all you want it doesnt make it go away

…What have I said that’s fancy? “Incontrovertible”?

no its not more of an expression than anything

What?

you say there is no way to disprove him and no way to prove him

I said there’s no way to disprove his existence incontrovertibly, but that goes for anything.

therefore any thought our beliefe in gods existence is in theory an not without what a person who believes in god calls evidence

Regardless of what a theist wishes to call evidence, the proposition that a god exists is without evidence.

you cant stop god but dont be annoyed by want you dont understand

X) I understand willful ignorance well enough to be justified in my irritation at it, I think.

willful ignorance is not knowing what happened and yet trying to pretend like you know what didnt happen
or did you not understand?

Yes. And I see your implication. But I’m not claiming absolute knowledge that a god doesn’t exist– I’m pointing out that claims that one does exist are without evidence. Surely you’re not saying that it’s wrong to reject an unevidenced and irrational assertion.

no but dont be annoyed by people who just want to feel comfortable living and dying u know?
want to be at peace we all need something to latch on to even u me too

I’m sorry, but embracing elaborate supernatural delusions is not healthy.

we are all just humans dont waste so much of your time being annoyed because someone believes in god ne happy in ur scientific endevures

Caring about the truth is not a waste of time, in my opinion. And it’s not like these comfortable delusions are harmless.

but like you said you dont know the truth
what harm have they caused?

😄 Wow. Well, there’s quite a laundry list. Take for instance the way Christian fundamentalists are currently trying to retard science education in the U.S. Take for instance the appalling state of women’s rights under Islamic law. Is caring about that a waste of time?

no but focus on the change of those things change doesnt come with bashing it comes with talking and understanding
s[eaking of U.S. we were founded on the fact that our forefathers were unable to belive the god they wanted they wanted freedom

I think that boldly and clearly pointing out the flaws in religious belief is a perfectly fine way to help promote the debasement of religion. I mean, try opening a soft-spoken, politely-worded dialogue with a fundamentalist imam and see how much change you elicit.

no u were on there sayin jesus isnt real jesus is dead things like this y?
thats a human of intollerance much like you are with god

😄 Pointing out the truth is intolerance? That’s news to me…
Seriously, though– intolerance would be me trying to force other people to believe what I believe.

you already said you dont know the truth so your not pointing out truth

Ahem.
I SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY TO BE INCONTROVERTIBLY CERTAIN OF THE TRUTH. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE TRUTH IS WHOLLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DETERMINE.
Did it get through that time?

but do you know the truth?

To a high degree of certainty, sure.

you know god doesnt exist? answer with a yes or a no

As I’ve said several times, my assertion is not that a god certainly does not exist, but that the claim that one does exist is without evidence.

why is that wrong?

Why is it wrong to make an untrue claim?

an untrue claim is saying jesus is dead

I could substantiate that claim easily enough, by pointing out that no human has lived to 200, let alone to 2,000.

i live in arizona there r a ton of jesus out here

X) Are you saying that you didn’t know which Jesus I was referring to? If I referred to Jesus as “the Biblical Jesus,” would that help you keep from becoming confused?

no im implying that you never seen jesus’s exumed body or his grave or him in person or god in person or ur lighting bolt and a molecule

Do you mean to say that it’s impossible to know that anything has occurred that one has not witnessed personally?

you speak of things u dont know of

As I’ve explained, I do know that there’s never been a recorded instance of a human being living longer than, say, 200 years. Therefore, I can know pretty certainly that a human born over 2,000 years ago must be dead by now, in absence of other evidence.

no but you cant disprove it

Wow. Hey, how about Mozart? Reckon he’s still alive?
How about Plato? I never saw his body. Perhaps he’s still hanging around somewhere.
Hell, they never found Hitler’s remains. You know what that means.

you say god is irrational and you dont know that
your theories have flaws
god doesnt

Belief in a god is irrational if there’s no evidence that that god exists.

beliefe in god is as an irrational thought as trying to make people believe he doesnt exist you know you wont make that happen

…What? I’m not trying to force people to abandon belief in a god.

you dont think thats unhealthy?

Criticizing false, destructive beliefs? Heck no.

calling it an irrational beliefe isnt trying to force people to abandon beliefe in good
?

No way. People have the right to believe whatever they want. I’d never support an incursion on that.

lol no? ok well i did in the end have a good and quite enlightning convo with you thank you

Yeah, it was reasonably colorful, I thought.

to say the least : )


Ever wondered what god smells like?

jesus is my lord and savior

Okay. What qualifies him for those positions?

the bible

Do you believe everything that’s written in books?

or the basic instructions before i leave earth and yes i believe that because its true!

How do you know it’s true?

I may not be religious but i still worship jesus
does science have to explain everything? huh i know because he told me so and he told millions of other chrisitians around the world
If you don’t believe in him there is no way to get to heaven you’ll be damned to hell for all eternity after death!

Oh, did Jesus walk into your living room and tell you in person?

no that would kill me you may not stand in the presence of god and live but an angel came to me in my dreams
It was written in hebrew

…Do you think everything written in Hebrew is true, then?

no
he informed me of it in a dream, and told me his truth

So you had a dream. You do realize that one’s dreams are often filled with things that aren’t actually real, I hope.

I will laugh when you go to hell

Oh, so you support torturing people for eternity?   How Christian of you.

Your annoying go away

Okay.

like i said science doesn’t explain everything

What ought science to address that it doesn’t?

word that differently

What can’t or doesn’t science do that it should do or be able to do?

science can’t explain why life exists
science can’t explain how the universe bagan the big bang theory is only that a theory

Oh, wow. There’s so much incorrect about what you’ve just said that I hardly know where to begin.

ok tell me then why did life appear

A theory can be proven so conclusively as to be considered a fact. “Theory” doesn’t mean that something is uncertain.  And the Big Bang doesn’t describe the beginning of the Universe, by the way.
Well, one plausible hypothesis is that a self-replicating protein molecule formed, and that all life is essentially an extension of that.

actually a theory is uncertain a law of science is different

No; you’re making a common mistake. Are you familiar with the theory of gravity?

yes a theroy no one will every prove that

So you don’t believe in gravity?

the theory of gravity is the law of gravity

No, the theory of gravity is the theory of gravity.  Theories don’t become laws if they’re proven; theories and laws are two fundamentally different things.
How about the germ theory of disease?

ok never heard of that one
law

It says that diseases are caused by microscopic organisms called germs.

that can be proven

Exactly.

the big bang can’t

Yes it can, actually.

How

My point is that “theory” does not mean unproven. Only someone basically scientifically illiterate would make that mistake.
Are you familiar with deep space photography?

yes

Then you know that deep space photographs reveal stars that are redshifted.

ok tell me your version of the big bang

The Big Bang describes a universe in a state of expansion.

yes it does but the little evidence we have of it cannot prove the big bang

What evidence we have confirms the Big Bang theory pretty strongly.

ok what evidence then other than the stars getting farther apart

You do realize that the Big Bang theory doesn’t address the creation of the Universe, I hope.

actually it does

No. It describes a universe in a state of expansion; it doesn’t describe the Universe’s initial formation.
So far as more evidence goes, the Big Bang theory leads us to expect a fairly homogenous universe, which is what we see.

than what made the universe?

We don’t have enough relevant information to address that question yet.

yeah we do we know it was god

On the basis of what evidence?

listen before you reply
what else could have put enough energy if the big bang theory was true to make a universe expand that rapidly?
the formation of the universe couldn’t have just happend it happend because god made it so

Is that your “evidence” of god, or are you getting around to that later?

thats part of it

That’s not actual evidence, but please continue.

what could have caused that much energy answer me that and i will continue

You mean, what caused the Big Bang?

yes what caused the big bang

We don’t have enough information on the pre-Big Bang universe to address that question beyond speculation.
So, I dunno. But “I dunno” doesn’t mean that it suddenly makes it reasonable to assume that a magical spirit did it.


who said god was magical

Well, they’ve got him performing a fair array of magic tricks in the Bible.

those were mirricals things that can’t be explained they helped people and that is because he is god

At any rate, you’ve still got to explain to me what evidence you have that your god created the Universe.

one other thing about chrisianity is that we are different from other religious folk
because we are the different ones it also gives more reason to believe that god does exist
not your god the God

Your “the God” is just one deity among many, so far as I can discern. There’s nothing that makes the Biblical god fundamentally different from Poseidon or Osiris or Mixcoatl.

you and your science can do what you must but the things science can’t explain the bible can

So, are you going to present me with any proof that your god created the Universe, or have you just forgotten about that now?

actually there is
our god helped us and did not quarrel with family like the greek gods our god only wanted to help man kind not use it for enjoyment or his
own puposes

“Only wanted to help man”? The Christian god sends people to be tortured for eternity in the afterlife. That does not square with pure benevolence.

like i said though millions of people have felt god they have heard god they justcant see god

…The fact that millions of people believe something is not evidence that it’s true.

ah but it wouldn’t have happend had those people believed or had satan not took thos soles himself

Is that supposed to justify the fact that god sends them off for infinite torment?

i said the FELT him HEARD him and even SMELLED him! god is God and he created all

What does god smell like, then? 😄

they sinned and god cannont live with sin satan made the tortures satan made sin sin is satons property if it is not forgivin
sweeter than anything immaginable on earth

Of course your god can live with sin. He’s omnipotent, isn’t he?

yes but he does not have to go everywhere he doesn’t live with sin because it displeasures him jesus was sent to save us from sin because
he was pure and we were not he was sent so no more sacrifices had to be made after him

So your god chooses to have people tortured for eternity because the alternative “displeases” him?

maybe god can live with sin but heavan cant and heaven is a reward
it pains him to see a soul go to hell

Heaven can live with sin, if your god wants it to be that way. Remember, he’s all-powerful.

you live your life badly here you live your life badly there

Of course, not believing doesn’t mean living your life badly.

answer me why don’t you believe in god why do you go with science?

Science isn’t really an alternative to god; it’s just a set of logical tools. I don’t believe in a god because there’s no evidence that any gods exist.

like i said sin is a stain if you don’t ask for forgivness you will go to a place where there is no mercy

Sorry, but I can’t beg forgiveness of someone I don’t believe exists. (Not that I would if I did.)

why would your mind wonder there? if god exists you go to hell and i personaly do not wan satans pleasure in having a verry inteligent
in his domain
person in his domain

None of this changes the fact that there’s no evidence god exists. It’s not even a matter of choice. I can’t believe in something for no reason.

commiting a sin is breaking a law if you break a law you go to prison
ah but you can

Why should I?

people believed in santa clause when they were little even you! don’t say you didn’t because it would be a lie

I may well have. Thankfully my ability to reason has improved since I was an infant.

you should because god told us too he sent us to tell all others
you are almost hopeless
but i wouldnt be a good chrisitian if i didn’t try to pursuade you from your scientific ways
just because science says so doesnt always make it true does it
why not believe that god made those things happen

Science doesn’t “say” anything. Science is a set of logical tools. Scientific thinking might lead us to a conclusion, but science isn’t an entity that makes pronouncements.

what makes it logical?
because humans say it is?

Science deals with logic. It’s logic-related. I was using “logical” in that sense.

what is truly logic? we do not know and we will never know if we continue to worship science

I don’t worship science. 😄 You’re mixing up science and religion.

are they two different things? people believe in it and work night and day to make it seem true
it is the same thing with catholics, protostants, jewish, monguls, hindus

😄 …Jesus christ, you’ve really got your head on backwards. Yes, science and religion are distinct.  And I don’t think “mongul” is a religion, by the way.

not necessarily

Science values evidentiary reasoning. Religion, to my observation, often does not. Science promotes belief only in ideas that are verifiable and falsifiable. Religion promotes “faith.”

religion promotes both if you give it a hard long thought

Yours certainly doesn’t.  You’re asking me to embrace a religion on the basis of something other than evidence. You’ve repeatedly refused to provide evidence that your god exists.

ok here is some evidence
there was a woman in a coma the doctors couldnt do anything for the lady. they pulled the cord on her life support and a few minutes later
she wole up alive and well
the doctors were baffled and didn’t know how she lived considering she was in critical condition minutes before

(Five minutes pass.)

Oh, is that it?

yes

Once, someone unexpectedly survived a medical emergency?  That’s your proof that the Christian god exists?

i would continue this conversation but i am tired i’ll try to pursuade you later


The logician

Do you believe in God?

What, the Biblical god?

Yes.

Nah. The Biblical god is as fake as a cardboard standee.

Why would you say something like that?

Well, it’s the truth.

“truth” is a heady thing to claim.

In some contexts, yes. But it’s not really a towering claim to say that, for instance, it’s true that the Earth orbits the sun. That’s how I look at it.

The earth orbitting the sun is not so hard to make a claim to, what you claimed seems like it is. That’s why i’m curious

Well, perhaps this would be a better parallel to draw.  Do you consider it hard to claim that, say, Santa Claus doesn’t exist?

no, stay awake on Christmas eve and you will find the claim to be false

Though, of course, I’m sure a determined Santa apologist could come up with some way to handwave that away.

unless you mean the catholic saint
no, I don’t expect I could find such a person

X) Nah; I’m thinking of Santa as popularly characterized, with the flying sleigh and all that.
At any rate, your views on Santa are probably similar to mine on the Christian god.

the claim is easily varified or nullified
what exactly is the christian claim that is so easily nullified as santa claus
I’m confused on that

Oh, you know, that an omnipotent supernatural spirit created and maintains the Universe and sent Jesus as his avatar.

well, being a ligician, I know exactly how I would nullify the santa claim, by what process to you nullify the other?
logician, sorry

No sweat.
To either claim, I’d say that there’s no evidence in its favor and that it makes claims that are pretty inconsistent with what we know about the Universe.

sorry, you are evidently too smart for me, I didn’t follow that.

😄 If I didn’t know better I’d think you were poking fun…

not at all
just not an easy sell if it doesn’t make sense to me

I’m just saying, A) There’s no evidence that the tenets of Christianity are true, and B) Christianity makes claims which are pretty inconsistent with what we know of how the Universe works.

what do we know about how the universe works?

Well, for instance, we don’t generally see people coming back to life after being dead for several days, or people ascending into the sky, or talking animals.

if we interviewed doctors we would find a great number who have experienced things that they, in modern medical terms, would say they could not explain
not to meantions that for every living phenomena there was a first, including life, no matter how you believe it came to existence

You’re not about to deploy the cosmological argument, are you?

therefore, the supposition is that only that which can be witnessed regularly can be, but we know that can’t be, or we couldn’t be
I’m only stating what is… as far as I know
there is a first cause for everything regardless of belief

I’m not saying that only what’s witnessed regularly is what’s possible. I’m saying that claims that are both starkly inconsistent with what we see and totally unevidenced shouldn’t be treated as credible.

not you have to break down what is the unevidenced part, the omnipotent creator part or the Jesus part, those are two different things

I’d say that the existence of an omnipotent creator and the existence of Jesus as portrayed in the Bible are both equally unevidenced.

I have to go, but here is my deal, I like any woman who wants to use her brain and articulate her opinion, that said, you are making claims like “totally unevidenced” which is not any more true than anyone elses system of belief. If you want to discuss it with someone who doesn’t already

Well, they are totally unevidenced.  Despite much investigation, I’ve never met a proponent of those ideas who could present evidence, and I’ve certainly not discovered it firsthand. What more could one need to declare a thing unevidenced?

agree with your basic premis then you need to know what evidences there are. Even Berklee was moving towards a basic design education a decade a

Hey, if you have any evidence for intelligent design, I’d love to hear it. You’d be the first, by the way.

ago because there was as much design evidence as not, if not more. Therefore, you need more than a “personal experience” argument if you want to discuss it on more than a “personal” level, which is how you began

Got any of this supposed evidence for ID on hand?

Intelligent design question, there are many books on it.  If you really want to be able to engage it you need to know and respect both sides well. People aren’t just stupid on either side of the issue

I’m sorry, but I can’t respect an idea that’s false and functionless.

some, of course, but not all, and to lump them into the sam catagory makes your arguements week

And, yes, I know that creationists aren’t necessarily stupid. You don’t have to be stupid to succumb to a stupid philosophy.
Anyway, I take it that you have no actual evidence for intelligent design on hand.

to claim it is false is a weak way out and to claim it is functionless is just foolish. There is more funcion in it, true or false, than to not

Hello? Can you hear me? Can you present me with any of the evidence for intelligent design you referred to, or can’t you?

I will not do your homework for you, nor am I even saying which side I am on. Just trying to help you be better than the college students I usua
usually teach.

Dear god; you’re a teacher? I hope you don’t work for an accredited university.

I believe that I told you the material is out there, and for you to ignore the opposing side is to admit you fear what they may have to s
say.

X) I’m not ignoring your side. I’m asking you to provide evidence for the claims you’ve made. When you asked me to justify my views, I didn’t just say, “Christianity is wrong! I won’t tell you why! Go do the research yourself!” Would you have found that a reasonable response?

I do have to go though. I hope you work out a better defense than the santa claus one. Read smart people who disagree with you. I already told you I won’t do your work for you.

…Proving your claims for you is not my work. If you’re unwilling to back up a claim, why make it in the first place?

It’s out there. You don’t have to agree. You just have to know and respect, then you will have a powerful arguement.

Hey, how much did your teaching degree cost? Can they print me up one as well?


God’s three-day weekend

the Lord God loves you and is the Almighty7 GOD

He’s almighty, huh?

yes and He he died for you and your sins ,,,HE really loves you

So he’s dead, then?

no he was ressurected on the third day and now is alive

Oh, so when you say “died,” you mean he played dead for a few days and then things went back to normal.

no he died ,,,,there came came blood and water out of his side when the Roman soldiers pierced him with a spear ,,, clearly showing that
……..


In what sense did he “die,” then, if he was able to just pop back to life afterwards?


medically, scietifically and really

He risked nothing; it’s obviously no sacrifice on his part.


no sacrifice!! he was whipped with whips that had bits of jagged bone and metal on the tips…….
then he was crucified with a crown of thorns on his head and accepted no sour wine
(sour wine distills pain)


If he’s omnipotent he could have easily chosen not to have that happen to him, while achieving the same aims. Is he a masochist?

no let me expalain……
no he is not ,,,we all deserve to die because of thesins we do,, but the Lord becuase he has done no wrong Hecould die in our place,,,
and he did ( and is resurrectted)


So why did god bother with the whole death/resurrection rigamarole? Of all the ways he could have done it, why did he pick the one that involved whipping?

umm see he had to suffer for all the suferring we deserve else justice would not be done ,,,do you understand?:)
uhmm c He had to endure all the suffering we deserve else justice would not have been done ,do u understand?:)


He didn’t
have to do that. He’s omnipotent, remember. He could have just fixed it by snapping his fingers.

For God so loved the Lord that HE gave HIs only7 begotten Son so that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting..
life(thats HEaven),,,John3:16


Yeah, I know John 3:16.  There’s a billboard with it on the way to Wal-Mart.


it was it was the only way HE could show us how much he loved us and justice could be done

If there was only one way he could have done it, that means he isn’t omnipotent.

no it was simply the bestway

Why was it the best way?


I already explained it so he can be JUST yet still LOVING


You haven’t explained it at all. If he’s omnipotent, he could have been JUST yet still LOVING and have done it in a way that didn’t involve torture and murder.

no LOve giving His life so we can keep ours


Why wouldn’t we be allowed to keep our lives in the first place? And he didn’t really give his life, if he’s still alive.

because justice says beacause we sin we deserve to die ,,,and like I said he did die but was so powerful HE resurected himself


It still wasn’t a sacrifice; he didn’t give up anything.


HE did we was crucifeid and tortured( that he didnt deserve remember

What exactly did he lose, though? What did he have before the sacrifice that he didn’t have afterwards?

I am starting to think that mabye the problem is nt that you dont understand but that you dont WANT to understand

I’m perfectly game to understand; your ideas just don’t make sense, though.

???

You say that an omnipotent god tortured himself in order to fix an error in a system he created, and that he made a sacrifice that didn’t involve actually giving up anything.

we r human and cannot fully understand God


So what you’re saying is that you don’t really know how it makes sense either.

he gave us a free will and knew that we would betray him and he knew this would happen

If he didn’t want to be betrayed, why did he create us so that we would inevitably betray him?

but He loved us so much that although HE knew HE would have to die for us HE would do it,,,and know we can have eternal life in Him(HEave

I still don’t see how his “dying” is a sacrifice at all. A human being who dies makes a much greater sacrifice, because it’s not like he or she can just magically pop back to life afterward.

no HE made a much greater sacrifice because HE did nothing wrong human beigns do many things wrong making them imprefect scrifices

But what did he actually sacrifice? What did he give up or risk giving up?

I know that the Lord Loves you ,,,and I can see that you r trying to find out the truth,,,if you search for the truth you will find it,,,”seek and ye shall find” I am praying that God will continue working in your life, and that HE will MAnifest Himself to you ,,,If you r looking for answers the best place is to go look in Gods Word ( the Holy BiBlE) ,,and ask Him to reveal Himself to you ….Start with the NEw TEstament and read the book of matthew first (in the Bible)
I gtg
remember God loves you and is with u now and always
: )
: )


In which someone forcibly plants their seed in me

Jesus christ is savior of all believers an unbeileivers

Saviour from what?


Sin so u dont have to suffer eternity in hell unless u repent and beileive

Why would I have to suffer eternity in Hell to begin with?

because adam and evesined and all are sinful and with sin we need to repent cause God forgives sins

Wait, I would go to Hell because of something Adam and Eve did? Why should I be held responsible for their actions?

Sins not fare i dont quite get that but you relally need to beileiave and
repent because ae u ganna say on judgment day when God
says ur going to hell its not fair?

I might say that, sure. I don’t deserve to go to Hell, and if god sends me there he’s a fascist psychopath.

God will say i gave you time to repent and ou didnt take it!
have fun sayin that to God whos all powerful

Repent for what? Something someone else did?

NO u sin!! are u saying u dont?
NO ONes perfect!!


But you said that one of the reasons I would be sent to Hell was Adam and Eve’s sin.

i said sin cme into the world because of adam and eve and now we sin and need to repent of it!

That’s not quite what you said.
So, why would your god send someone to Hell just because they’re imperfect?


ok God doesnt God wants all to be perfect but we know its impossible but God knows that
doesnt matter what u argue about if u dont beileive or repent sadly your hedding to a wrong path…

Wait… if god doesn’t want to send people to Hell, why does he do it?  He’s omnipotent, yes?

i want everyone to go to heavan but everyone cant
yes


So, if god’s all-powerful, why doesn’t he just send everyone to Heaven?

because people on earth would take advantage of that! they would sin so much and say im going to heavan i can do all kinds of horrible hting
NO!


No what?


thats not hiow it works!!


Says who? Your god’s omnipotent; he can change anything he wants to.

im not a pastor or anything i cant really explain much but ik im going to heavan ,deserv hell cause ik i sin much and


You don’t really seem to understand the things you claim to believe in.

i understand it all! its hard to explain
but God loves humans


If he loves humans, why does he choose to torture billions of them for eternity?

theres a thing called the devil and the devil tempts people to sin

God’s omnipotent, though. He could wipe out Satan anytime he wanted.  Why doesn’t he? Does god want people to be tempted to sin?

see idk but ik God loves everyone
and i bet my life that God will send me to heavan n all who repent and beileive


God doesn’t sound like he loves everyone. Heck, even Hitler wasn’t evil enough to torture people for eternity.


omg ur such a sinner and u are going to hell but if u dont repent and stop doubting then im sorry for u
cause the devil tempts people like u and ull burn forever in hell if u dont

“Such a sinner”?! I’m not the one torturing people!

GOD ISNT EITHE ITS THE DEVIL!!!


God allows it to happen. He could stop it in an instant if he wanted to, but apparently he doesn’t want to.


ur lost u need to go to the neerest WELSpastor christain church and talk to a

Can you give me any evidence that any of the stuff you’re saying is true?


theres a thing called the bible
and if u can prove something andything in the bible is wrong then Gods not real but u cant


Okay; I can prove that something in the Bible is wrong.


what?


The Bible says that all life on Earth was created over a six day period. That, along with the rest of the Genesis story, is completely at odds with everything we know about Earth’s history.

no its not because earths history like the big bang is false and so is eveolution ok the earth has been along for about 6000 years orso i th
NOT MILLIONS!!!!!

Actually, the Earth is a little over four and a half billion years old. And the Big Bang isn’t directly related to Earth’s formation.

wow see there ya go can u prove that?


Prove what? The Earth’s age, or that the Big Bang wasn’t directly related to Earth’s formation?

humans mind cant even comprihend that! and think its true wow your really lost
Talk to a WELs christain pastor!

About what? Cosmology?

AGE AND BIG BANG!
ABOUT ALL yoqr questions!


I’d rather talk to a scientist.


SCIENTISTS ARE WRONG THEY HAVE NO PROOF!

There’s plenty of proof.  I’m a layman and even I know that.


ok im not talking to u anymore u dont want to open ur mind to the idea and always going to argue im sory theres no helping u!


I’m perfectly openminded. I’ll consider any evidence you present to me. And so far you have presented… no evidence at all.


good bye im sorry i hope some day u can open ur mind to the tuth!

😄 And I hope someday you realize that the reason you don’t understand your belief system is that it DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE.


wow have fun in hell!


So now you actually gloat over the prospect of my being tortured for eternity? Why? Because we have differing opinions?

if u actually beilived ull be in hell then u beileive there is a heavan and hell so my work is done of plating the seed
for not beileiving


😄 Why can’t you just show me some evidence? That’s what’d really sway me, not “plating the seed.”

good bye i hope u repent


ترقص مع المؤمنين

do you believe jesus was resurrected?

No.

are you jew?

No.

then what are you?

I’m an atheist.

lol
really?

Yup.

ok…. if he was not then what happen to him

What do you mean?

if he was not resurrented then what happen to him

Well, presumably Jesus stayed dead after he died, like the rest of us.

you are right in the last part
but do you believe in miracles?  i don’t want to jump into a point where you will not understand

I believe in miracles.  Where are you from, you sexy thing?
No– seriously, though, I don’t believe in miracles.

so thats mean you don’t believe in luck, miracles or coincedent
is tht right?

I don’t believe in what I’d consider to be the standard definition of “luck.”  Of course I believe in coincidence.  And, no, I don’t believe in miracles in any literal sense.

but do you where miracle, luck came from?
i meant the root
their root

I’m not sure what you’re asking.

i hope you you don’t mind asking your age
i might be wasting your time

I doubt you’re wasting my time.  I’m 23.

nice thx alot

Now, are you asking me what I believe the cause of improbable events is, or what?

no
was  your dad or mom from christian beck grond
back*
sorry my typing is bad

They were both raised in a culture saturated with Christianity, so an elevated awareness of Christian concepts has rubbed off on them, though neither of them hold a particularly distinct faith.

ok
thats why you are in this condition
for example
if i born in french speaking family i will learn some or fluent french
but if i born in different language speaking family

Except my views on religion aren’t all that similar to my parents’, or to those of society at large in my area.

are you from US?

Yes.

ok
so did you ever read a bible
i mean full
or anyother scripture

Let’s see…  I’ve read the Bible, the Mahabharata, some bits of the Qu’ran, some bits of Greek and Roman mythology, and some holy texts from the Egyptian, Babylonian, Assyrian, and other ancient religions.
Oh, and some of the Book of Mormon, too.

wow
nice then you did yur part

Most of it was fairly entertaining.  The Greek myths are rather pulpy, in their own way.
Oh, except for the Book of Mormon.  Dear god.

why did you read all those?

Oh, it varies.  The Greek and Roman stuff, mostly for entertainment.  The Babylonian and Assyrian stuff was for a class.  I read bits of the Book of Mormon because some Mormon missionaries asked me to.

they come to my place as well

The Mahabharata I read for entertainment, and because it was recommended to me by a Hindu person I know.  Krishna seemed like an interesting figure to me, so I wanted to see what he was about.
At any rate.  I think you were explaining why I’m “in this condition.”

i really want to know why don’t you believe in god
thats what i am going to answer stepby step

I can just tell you why I don’t believe in any gods, if you’d prefer.

in believe explain and reasoning
if you can explain to me in detail with reasoning
please

There’s not that much detail to give, I’m afraid.  What it boils down to is, there’s no compelling reason I’ve ever been shown to believe that a god exists.  No proof.  No reason.  Just a bunch of folk tales and logical sleight-of-hand.

ok
i got it
you want reason to believe in god
i will try my best to prove that there is only god

I wish you luck!

i need your support as well
time and open mind

I’ll listen to whatever arguments you want to put forth.

: )
but this can’t  be done in one day
cause this thing happened by days
so i need days as well
cause i am not a very good at english and good speaker

It’s all good.  You’re articulate enough for me to understand you, and that’s enough so far.

you might get scared if i tell you this
lol
hope not
i hope … i will able to do it
i am from muslim back ground

Yeah?  I don’t run into many Muslims on here; it’s mostly Christian territory.

not very prectising muslim
ok

So, would you care to begin with your explanation as to why your god is real?

ok
we believe in one god
but
we just don’t believe blind folded
do you believe in science

I believe that scientific thinking is useful.

thats right
if you tell you in the Quran there are a lot of science facts
100s
and more

All right.  Is that meant to be proof that the Qu’ran’s claims concerning god and so forth are true?

which was wrote down before 1400 years ago
not only that
for example
how do you know protein gives you power
if doctor gives you explaination and prove  you

Well, one way you could determine protein’s effect on a person would be to give some people protein, have others be given a placebo, have others act as a control group, and then test and compare the physical performance of the three different groups.

then you will know and believe right?
you speaking what i am just about to say
thats proof right

Sure– a scientific study could yield strong proof.

thats right
but you see most of the atheist believe in evolution
but that wasn’t yet proven

There’s plenty of proof of evolution, actually.  Evolution is testable, just like the effects of protein consumption.

testable  but how come those top scientist still couldn’t prove it for 100%
those people are believing in this without reading it
or before understanding iit

All right.  If people endorse evolution without understanding it, that’s poor thinking on their part.  I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, though.

but yet people don’t understanding and believing ing this

To my observation, the great majority of people who believe in evolution understand it at least basically.

but how can you believe in something which is not proven yet

That would be irrational, yes.

but i say this is proven but still people don’t believe in
could  be the t

You say what is proven?

that  god is there

What proof is there?

when a book gives you a a detail in 100% correct

How do you know that the Qu’ran is 100% correct?

embryology in Quran
it is proven by science and scientis
when do you think our science advanced
200 years
400 years?
or more or less?

Even if we accept that the Qu’ran records early scientific knowledge, how does that prove that the book must be 100% correct?

when a book can give you a
when a book can give youdetail
1400years back
sciectis couldn’t prove wrong

The Greeks made many early scientific discoveries.  Does that make the Greek religion correct?

but ther are wrong science as well
but Quran doesn’t contain anywrong scientific fatcs
all are 100%

How do you know that the Qu’ran is 100% accurate?

why do you think scientist becomes muslims
but not any other reason
which science become changed his religion accept islam
scientist

Yup.  Sometimes scientists become Muslims.  Some scientists become Christians.  Some scientists become atheists.  What’s your point?

point is scienctist knows a lot other religion scripture
that they contain science
100%

This isn’t a particularly widely-held perspective in the scientific community, that I’ve observed.

: )
but you know that muslim is a terrorist   right?

Er… no.  Not necessarily.

it is because of the media
if the media don;t show …..we don’t speak or share this
if the media shows something we all talk about  it and chat about this in colleges , school etc

I’m well aware that not all Muslims are sympathetic toward terrorism.  You don’t need to convince me.

thanks  alot

Yeah, no worries.

no religion teach violence
ok maybe some  does
but not islam

I would disagree with that.
But I think we’re straying from the point.  You still haven’t proven that the Qu’ran is 100% correct.

disagree with what?

I would disagree that Islam does not promote violence.

i can’t prove that 100% corrent

If you can’t prove it, then why do you believe it?

you have to watch a video
i didn’t say that
i meant i can’t tell you all 100% in one go
that will take me hours

Ah.  Well… go ahead and begin, then.

islam doesn’t promote violence
tell one please

“As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.” – Qu’ran 3:56

lol
are you living in this world?

In a literal sense, yes.

ok……
if your teacher tell you to do something
if you don;t do
what happens
punishment right
?
if you love your country and serve in militery
general knows we love our country
thats why we are there to serve
if i don;t listen he will punish me still

How does any of this justify promoting inflicting “terrible agony” on people simply for not believing something?

ok
you live in a country

Yup.

goverment set up a country rule
for people safety
if you don;t believe in his rule then you will
not not be punish?
those rules are for people safety right?
then why not follow

Nobody should be punished simply for not believing something.
Particularly not with “terrible agony.”

lol….
for example
a guy rapes a women

Raping someone is not the same as rejecting an idea.

wait…
this is the law
that you can not rape anyone
you are rejecting the idea that not to follow that law
following the law means you are believing in goverment

Not necessarily.  I can disagree with a law and protest against it while still obeying it.

if you let go that rapist
he will rape again
a mental issuie  peson can disagree as well
or maybe it is not good for him

None of this justifies torturing people for having a certain opinion.

but not bad for him either
i will prove

Please do.

if that man gets into jail for 1 year
he will rape again
most will do
look at the rape rate in US

But raping people is not the same as holding an idea.  He’s being put into jail for having committed rape, not for holding pro-rape views.

one rape in every 3 sec

That sounds a bit inflated.

if i go around raping women
come out do it agin and agiain
like it is happening  in us

But what you’re talking about is punishment for an act, not punishment for the holding of a view.

i amtrying to say
look at the saudi arab
cause they have a islamic law
they have the lowest crime  rate in this world

Yes; oppressive governments typically have low crime rates.

but they have only 10 to 20 percent
even western wants to live there
cause so much peace there

Are you joking?  In places like America, Australia, and the UK, Saudi Arabia is considered to be an exceptionally unappealing place to live.

wow
i think you have no knowlwdge
cause you are not in full mature yet
you are mentally mature

Hey, here’s all I can say.  I’ve lived in America and Australia, and spent time in the UK, and I have never, ever met anyone who said they wanted to live in Saudi Arabia.

cuase they never been they
and media boosted  up west
it is so peace ful not actually not
i am living in uk now
it is so much stress
you can;t share feeling with your naurghbour
they don;t even know their naughbour properly

I think we’re getting a bit afield of the point.  You were trying to prove to me that the Muslim god exists.

you see it is a very long topic
cause we live in this world we have to go trough this life first
cause you are an athiest
you wanted to know 100% prove
of quran is the word of  god

You haven’t proven that the Qu’ran is the word of a god, or that a god even exists.

thats why you need to watch videos
i will give you …links
to watch
do you zakir naik

I’ve heard of him.

nice
then it will be easier for me
cause it is 5 am here
anyway
he talks about concept of god
in islam, chrisnity , etc and also  athiest

I’d really prefer it if you could explain your own claims, personally.

what do you mean by own claim

You have claimed that Islam is true, that the Muslim god exists, that the Qu’ran is inerrant, etc.

we all got the same claim
we all muslim claim the same
no difference

Perhaps, but a person should be able to explain his own claims himself.

i do a lot

When you asked me to explain why I was an atheist, I didn’t just link you to a video of Richard Dawkins.

i have to go
we will continue talking right

Righto.  I’ll see you around.

you too
: )


Darwin’s black box (of rocks)

do u accept jesus?

Not really, no.


BOY, do u ever have a suprise coming!


X) Yeah? What’s that?


when u die and find urself in hell


Mhm. Got any evidence that any of what you’re saying is true, or do you just believe it for no reason?

do u have any evidense that it is not true?

The default position toward any assertion should be one of lack of belief.
So, as long as there is no evidence that it is true, I have no choice but to not believe.

look at the world around you, how did it get here? not by man!

Aside from the buildings and stuff, yeah, I’d agree with you.

so where did it all come from

What, the planet Earth?

earth, moon, sun, stars, everything

Well, the Earth and moon were formed by gravity acting on gas and particulate matter in the nebula that preceded our solar system.  The same general thing goes for the sun and other stars, except they became so massive that nuclear fusion began to take place.

well, if that is the case, why hasn’t the magnificent mind of man been able to produce life
just take a box of rocks and dump them out on the ground and viola…you have life

…Huh?

what? no answer?

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Dumping a bunch of rocks on the ground creates life? That’s a non sequitur.

so how can it happen the way you said?

What, the formation of the planets?  That wasn’t related to… man creating life by dumping a box of rocks on the ground.

yes, what are trees and plants and people, if they are not life?
it didn’t just happen

Of course it didn’t. You asked how the sun, moon, Earth, and stars were formed. That’s different than asking how life forms.

earth and everything on it?


😄 I’m not going to give a point-by-point explanation of the origins of everything that’s ever existed on Earth.


why not, u seem to know everything else

Not really, I’m just a layman with a reasonably informed knowledge of science.
If you have a question about the way something specific came into existence, though, shoot, and I’ll try to field it.


how did man come into existence?


Man evolved from an ancestral form of primate.

where did the primate come from


It would have evolved from another form of primate.


and where did that other form of primate come from?


It would have evolved from another form of primate. Anyway, several thousand “where did that come from?”s later, we reach abiogenesis.


in other words, u can’t tell me where life came from!

I can present you with a plausible hypothesis, sure.


ok, what is that?


I think it’s highly plausible that life began as a relatively simple, self-replicating, organic molecule, which you could think of as the progenitor to DNA.

but if it were self replicating then it would in itself have to be a life form, so where did it come from

Molecules of that general type can, in the right circumstances, be assembled in reactions caused by electromagnetic energy. They’re pretty simple molecules, so nothing too elaborate would be necessary, if the general conditions were congenial.


so why hasn


Hm?

so why hasn’t man been able to perform that simple act?

Oh, man has, actually.


i guess he just hasn’t been able to find any self replicating molecules.
oh, thats a new one, when did man produce life forms with out making babies?


😄 We weren’t talking about producing fully-fledged life. We were talking about producing the type of organic molecules that, under the hypothesis I’ve just discussed, may have led to the rise of life.

anything organic IS a life form

Oh, okay. Well, if anything organic is a lifeform, then, yes man has created life from scratch. X)

when?

On numerous occasions, but I was thinking of the Miller-Urey experiments.  When? 1952.
What are you even asserting, anyway? That organic molecules could never occur without Jebus pushing around the atoms?


ask any scientist and they will tell u, man cannot reproduce any kind of life form period
i am asserting that man was CREATED not engineered from whatever form u think

…I’m not asserting that life was engineered, either. That’s much closer to what you’re asserting.

when u want the real answers, check out God’s word

😄 Yes, when I want real answers I’ll just forget about science and go read a book of Bronze Age superstitions and fables.
Briliant.


may God bless u my friend

Oh, don’t be sanctimonious. You’re not my friend; you’ve done nothing but repeat arguments you don’t understand at me.


when u can show me where the real scientists have the answers i will listen to your fairy tail ideas

Hey, I’m willing to give you a substantiated answer to any question you have.

It sounds like Charles Darwin and his unfounded thearies
substanuate human life forms

So now you’re back to talking about the origins of the human species, are you?

well, where else would all of this go?

Earlier you were talking about the formation of stars and abiogenesis.

if you can’t tell me where life came from, you don’t have answers for anything else

Okay, so now we’re talking about abiogenesis, are we?

no, we are talking about evasion on your part

😄 Evasion? You’re jumping randomly among topics faster than I can address them.
Now, are you asking about human origins, or abiogenesis, or what?


but, you have not addressed a single thing yet

I actually gave a pretty good explanation of a plausible hypothesis for abiogenesis.

and it is just that, a hypothasis

Yes, of course.  I’m just saying, if you ask me a quesiton, give me enough time to answer it before you jump to another topic.

(Then he logged off.)